Hanomag/Stoewer/BMW

[roberto]

einar said:

Hello Holger and Roberto!
I have been told by a very knowledgeable l.gl.Eih.Pkw guy that BMW did not build any radio supressed l.gls at all? My car though was missing so many details that it was impossible to define its type. 4 doors may be more practical but the 3 doors are very cute!
Watch my Kuebel 82 just inserted!
cheers, Einar
PS: Is there a surplus engine around? Have not yet been able to find a BMW, so would like to get a Stoewer or Hanomag engine
instead. Seems to be more around of those - and reasonably correct to use one!

Hello Einar,

I've never heard of bmw not building the funk version but who knows ??
If you still have the original firewall to your bmw then it is possible to tell if yours was a funk version because the holder for the surpression parts in the engine compartment needs some holes for mounting to the firewall , if these holes are there then it well could be a radio version. I think the 4 -door version doesn't have these holes in the firewall.

Regards,
Roberto

[einar]

Hello Roberto!
Please advise where to find any holes for suppression equipment.
cheers, Einar

[amelinas]

Einar&Roberto

Let me tell you an interesting story. Ten years ago I was in contact with an old man which had been the former production manager from the “Vereinigte Werkstätten Karosseriefabrik München” Those company was a subcontractor for BMW and had made the body’s for the lepkw. These guy had told me that he or better those company has just/only produced the 4-door version of the lepkw for BMW.

So, if that is really true and the “Vereinigte Werkstätten Karosseriefabrik München” was the only subcontractor for lepkw body’s which was delivered to BMW, then it could be correct that BMW has never built the 3-door version for the lepkw.

But, we all knows, that nothing is impossible….


roberto

Your are really sure that only the radio version’s has to be “Entstört nach Gruppe…”?

[cees]

Einar,

Is it the same 325 engine as in the 60cm search light generator ?? I think they are not so difficult to get in Norway.

Cees

[Pauli]

Gentlemen,
Please forget all about "holes in bodies" or "maybe this and that", its not reliable, but it is all explained in the lEpkw engine parts book D662/3, for ;-

-the BMW Typ 325 engine only ever had Ent Gruppe III parts produced for it
-the STOEWER Typ R180W engine only ever had Ent Gruppe III parts produced for it
-the HANOMAG Typ 20B engine, had both Ent Gruppe I and III parts produced for it
-the STOEWER Typ AW2 engine, had both Ent Gruppe I and III parts produced for it

Therefore for lEpkw Production;-
-the BMW Lepkw only ever used their own engine for both 3 and 4 door bodies, therefore no radio BMW's

-the HANOMAG from 1937 to very late 39 used the STOEWER R 180 W and then until Sept 1940 used the HANOMAG engine for both 3 and 4 door bodies, therefore radio Hanomag's only possible for 1940.

the STOEWER from 1937 to late 1939 used the Stoewer R180 W engine, then the Stoewer AW2 engine until April 1944, had both 3 and 4 door bodies therefore radio Stoewers only possible from very late 1939 to April 1944.

Cees is of course correct about the BMW engine, it was used for more applications than just the BMW lEpkw, so should be not so difficult to get one, but also rmember it can be one or two carburettors, depending on year of the BMW lEpkw.

cheers Pauli

[einar]

Hello gentlemen! Like I said, there is knowlegde out there!
The smaller search light generator used a BMW engine, 6 cylinder but 1,5, not 2 litres. Both bore and stroke smaller. I have one but prefer not to use it. It seems to be suppressed!
cheers, Einar

[pauli]

|Hello Einar,

The BMW 325 engine (or very similar) was used for civilian BMW's also, another BMW lEpkw owner in the USA got huge help from the civilian BMW owners clubs that exist, so try them.

It would be nice to have a BMW 6 cylinder of one type or another rather than the Stoewer or Hanomag engines, its historically and technically more accurate for your lEpkw

Paul

[Pauli]

hello Amelinas,

Good info about the bodymaker VWK of Munich, there are definitely two BMW lEpkw in existance today that originally had 3 door bodies when new and one was by a company called Carl Weinberger of Munich.

Unfortunately today both bodies have been removed, one replaced with a 4 door version !!! and the other with nothing, but a 1946 photo of it clearly shows a 3 door body fitted.

All of the three lEpkw manufacturers used several body makers, and not the same ones, so there are approximately 10 body makers altogether .

Are you still in contact with the VWK man ? have some questions for him is so.

cheers Paul

[nick]

Hello Pauli!
A lot of very interesting information surfaced! I recently found the triangular leftside body part
(between the doors) from a LePkw with this manufacturing plate - this must be one of the
(13?) factorys that manufactured the bodys. Do you know if this company made the radio bodys as well?

Kindest regards / Nick...

[Pauli]

Hi Nick,

What plate ?, is there a photo that I should be looking at in your note?

Its a complicated scenario with body makers, not all of them did the same work, Stoewer for instance used Schlechte, Assmann and Ambi-Budd until late 1939, but thereafter built all their own bodies until the end of lEpkw production in April 1944, and Stoewer certainly built every body version, 3 door Ent Gp I and III, 4 door Ent Gp III and Zwei MG 2 Ent Gp III, in other words Kfz 1, 2/1, 2/2, 2/40, 3 and 4.

But, as mentioned above, VWK made only 4 door bodies, so only could have made Kfz 1 and 3 lEpkw.

But also note that thase body makers (like most wheeled vehicle production in WWII) received "running chassis" from BMW/Hanomag/Stoewer to which they added these bodies, they did not (usually) send bodies to the chassis maker.

That is why different "D" Teile books, show a "Running Chassis", then a "Body" construction and then the "Equipment" being fitted into that body, all separate books, because they are completed in separate locations by the chassis maker, body maker and finally the HeersZeugampt for equipment fit.

So what was the body plate you had, and its number and date please ?

cheers PAUL

[cees]

Paul,

Can you give us the D- numbers from the body constructions. Do you have a list from all the body makers ? My Hanomag 20B body constructor is Heinrich Schomacker & co Fahrzeugfabrik Hamburg.

Cees

[amelinas]

Pauli said:

hello Amelinas,

Good info about the bodymaker VWK of Munich, there are definitely two BMW lEpkw in existance today that originally had 3 door bodies when new and one was by a company called Carl Weinberger of Munich.

Unfortunately today both bodies have been removed, one replaced with a 4 door version !!! and the other with nothing, but a 1946 photo of it clearly shows a 3 door body fitted.

All of the three lEpkw manufacturers used several body makers, and not the same ones, so there are approximately 10 body makers altogether .

Are you still in contact with the VWK man ? have some questions for him is so.

cheers Paul

Hello Paul,

That’s are very interesting news. I do not want to gives an statement on the replaced 4 door (ex-3 door)body but I believe, that we have the same meaning about it….

So, if the Karl Weinberger Company/Munich has made 3 & 4 door bodies, it looks that whoever and for some reason has separated the special fabrication of different type of body-type productions (for BMW) to different factory’s. The plot thickens because the German war-administration of the economy and the war economic management starts their program for the defence economy under a single commodity control earliest on May 1942 and the first real execution of it comes true in November 1942! And by the way, the artisan production of the whole gamut of (all German) vehicle- bodies changed also 1943 to the industrial-scale process of production.

Yes, I am still in contact with the VWK man but in the meantime he is 95 years old and it takes some time to refresh his memory’s…send me your question via PM and I will forwarded them to him...

Holger

[Pauli]

hello Cees,
Never seen a body assembly parts book for lEpkw (or for any other vehicle type), but they do exist and must have existed of course.

Hi Nick,
Very interesting body plate from B-Nag, not aware of this one, obviously from what I said above it cannot be from a Stoewer vehicle as in 1940 as they were making all their own bodies, and even though running chassis were sent to body makers, Elbing is still a huge distance from BMW at Eisenach and/or Hanomag at Hannover, which makes me ask the question of you, and I not being rude, how sure are you that this is a lEpkw body part you have ? and not the triangle of another type of Kubelwagen ?,

The body number 1623, suggests the 1623rd body built by B-Nag, which would make it 10% of all lEpkw production, thats not possible, B-Nag making 10% of all lEpkw bodies !. However there is a possible explanation, sometimes with four digit body numbers the first digit is a code for the body maker, so "1" could literally be B-Nag and their 623rd body, but that is still a huge number for a body maker never seen on lEpkw before, but all is possible.
However I have no magic book on the subject, all this data and information is from observing existing vehicles over many years,
so obviously there must be more data to be found/discovered.

The trouble is as more of these vehicles get restored, lots of original information gets lost, like I said above about the 3 door BMW, the restorer preferred a 4 door body so that is what he built and history was changed !! he also added a new made Eugene Rupflin body plate, a genuine body company but they never made these bodies, so history was changed even more.

cheers PAUL

[nick]

Hi Paul!

You are not being rude in any way - that is a good question, and I cant tell if this part is from a LePkw for sure - sorry! My interest was if the company was a known manufacturer of LePkw bodys - then this part maybe could be a bit in this puzzle. I found it among parts from varius
german vehicles - so I cant say for sure where it belong.
Thanks anyway!

Regards / Nick...

[pauli]

hi Nick,

thanks, is it possible to see a photo of the complete body part ?

thanks Paul